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	<title>Comments on: re: Self, version 2.0</title>
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		<title>By: Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Bicking]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; China et al &lt;/strong&gt; 
There is a social and power relationship between China, Christianity, and the Western world.  The indians in the Americas had no tradition either, and yet I would hardly call the conversion one of spontaneous faith.  It&#039;s not to say such mission work is always coercive, but it is often manipulative, and very consciously so.  Whatever it takes to save their souls.  And China is ripe for it, because they don&#039;t have a monotheistic tradition, and I think monotheism is quite compelling when coming from other traditions.  There&#039;s a reason why polytheism has largely disappeared.

As for Zeus, he&#039;s done just as much for me as Christ has.  I mean, c&#039;mon; all the gods I don&#039;t believe in are on equal footing.  And as for God sending Jesus to die... that whole thing makes zero sense to me.  I mean, God *is* Jesus.  Whatever that is supposed to mean.  And he died, but so what?  We all die.  Most of us die for more than 3 days, so I&#039;m unimpressed by the sacrifice.  And heck, I read everything Jesus said -- which is about 10 pages worth of material, he wasn&#039;t exactly prolific -- and it doesn&#039;t exactly jump out at me as revelatory.  And I&#039;ll be damned if I&#039;m going to listen to Paul.  Haha, I think I made a pun of sorts.  A heretical pun.

I recognize that Christian faith -- and most faith, regardless of religion -- is something I don&#039;t understand, that I can&#039;t empathize with.  You can&#039;t reason about faith, I accept that.  But it goes both ways -- I accept (and am entirely comfortable) with the fact that I can&#039;t use reason to convince you not to be a Christian.  I don&#039;t have any desire to convince you of that.  But similarly you won&#039;t be able to use reason to convince me (or anyone) to be Christian.  You can use the language of reason, but that&#039;s just a facade.  In using that language you might convince someone of something; but you didn&#039;t do it with reason.  You connected with some desire, some as-yet restrained belief in them, some image, something that was there before.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> China et al </strong><br />
There is a social and power relationship between China, Christianity, and the Western world.  The indians in the Americas had no tradition either, and yet I would hardly call the conversion one of spontaneous faith.  It&#8217;s not to say such mission work is always coercive, but it is often manipulative, and very consciously so.  Whatever it takes to save their souls.  And China is ripe for it, because they don&#8217;t have a monotheistic tradition, and I think monotheism is quite compelling when coming from other traditions.  There&#8217;s a reason why polytheism has largely disappeared.</p>
<p>As for Zeus, he&#8217;s done just as much for me as Christ has.  I mean, c&#8217;mon; all the gods I don&#8217;t believe in are on equal footing.  And as for God sending Jesus to die&#8230; that whole thing makes zero sense to me.  I mean, God *is* Jesus.  Whatever that is supposed to mean.  And he died, but so what?  We all die.  Most of us die for more than 3 days, so I&#8217;m unimpressed by the sacrifice.  And heck, I read everything Jesus said &#8212; which is about 10 pages worth of material, he wasn&#8217;t exactly prolific &#8212; and it doesn&#8217;t exactly jump out at me as revelatory.  And I&#8217;ll be damned if I&#8217;m going to listen to Paul.  Haha, I think I made a pun of sorts.  A heretical pun.</p>
<p>I recognize that Christian faith &#8212; and most faith, regardless of religion &#8212; is something I don&#8217;t understand, that I can&#8217;t empathize with.  You can&#8217;t reason about faith, I accept that.  But it goes both ways &#8212; I accept (and am entirely comfortable) with the fact that I can&#8217;t use reason to convince you not to be a Christian.  I don&#8217;t have any desire to convince you of that.  But similarly you won&#8217;t be able to use reason to convince me (or anyone) to be Christian.  You can use the language of reason, but that&#8217;s just a facade.  In using that language you might convince someone of something; but you didn&#8217;t do it with reason.  You connected with some desire, some as-yet restrained belief in them, some image, something that was there before.</p>
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		<title>By: Sidnei da Silva</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sidnei da Silva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; Hi Zeus! &lt;/strong&gt; 
Maybe you were in vacation when I&#039;ve visited Athens, but I didn&#039;t meet you there.

The souvlaki was great, though. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> Hi Zeus! </strong><br />
Maybe you were in vacation when I&#8217;ve visited Athens, but I didn&#8217;t meet you there.</p>
<p>The souvlaki was great, though. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Sidnei da Silva</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sidnei da Silva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; re: US &lt;/strong&gt; 
That&#039;s right, the US is a exception to this. I don&#039;t live in the US though, but in Brazil and evangelic christianity is more of a silent (or forcibly silenced) revolution here, with the main communication channels (tv, radio and newspapers) constantly attacking it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> re: US </strong><br />
That&#8217;s right, the US is a exception to this. I don&#8217;t live in the US though, but in Brazil and evangelic christianity is more of a silent (or forcibly silenced) revolution here, with the main communication channels (tv, radio and newspapers) constantly attacking it.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeus</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zeus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://omsg.wordpress.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-98</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; And what&#039;s wrong with Zeus? &lt;/strong&gt; 
I&#039;m shocked, positively shocked, that you&#039;ve dismissed a personal relationship with me, Zeus, son of Chronos, supreme ruler of Mount Olympus.

Free souvlaki to all who follow me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> And what&#8217;s wrong with Zeus? </strong><br />
I&#8217;m shocked, positively shocked, that you&#8217;ve dismissed a personal relationship with me, Zeus, son of Chronos, supreme ruler of Mount Olympus.</p>
<p>Free souvlaki to all who follow me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Foo Man Chu</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Foo Man Chu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://omsg.wordpress.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; Uncommon? &lt;/strong&gt; 
&lt;i&gt;Faith is such a controversial subject to talk about. It&#039;s extremely &lt;b&gt;uncommon&lt;/b&gt; to see people profess their personal faith nowadays. Yet, they are thirsty and start to realize that there&#039;s a hole in their lives that just cannot be filled.&lt;/i&gt;

Surely you jest... the US has become more overtly evangelical Christian centric over the past 20 years than at any time since the post-WWII &#039;modern era&#039;.

It hasn&#039;t helped any.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> Uncommon? </strong><br />
&lt;i&gt;Faith is such a controversial subject to talk about. It&#8217;s extremely &lt;b&gt;uncommon&lt;/b&gt; to see people profess their personal faith nowadays. Yet, they are thirsty and start to realize that there&#8217;s a hole in their lives that just cannot be filled.&lt;/i&gt;</p>
<p>Surely you jest&#8230; the US has become more overtly evangelical Christian centric over the past 20 years than at any time since the post-WWII &#8216;modern era&#8217;.</p>
<p>It hasn&#8217;t helped any.</p>
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		<title>By: Sidnei da Silva</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sidnei da Silva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://omsg.wordpress.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-96</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; re: tradition &lt;/strong&gt; 
I disagree with that. If that was the case, then no single person in China would be Christian. Yet, the number of Christians is exploding in China.

1. http://tinyurl.com/7qrao
2. http://tinyurl.com/dm4da

I, too, never expected to be a Christian myself. I was a great fan of humanism and positivism. I had tried budism. And while all of this seemed to bring some peace and a sense of completeness, it was all too shallow.

Then I tried Christianity. And now there&#039;s no turning back. My faith has grown day after day. I had experiences with God. Once you are really into Christianity there&#039;s just too many evidence that God exists and that Jesus was really the Savior to not believe.

Think about it. Where is Zeus? What did he do for you? What can he do for you today?

God sent his son Jesus to live on earth and die for us. No other &#039;god&#039; out there would do the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> re: tradition </strong><br />
I disagree with that. If that was the case, then no single person in China would be Christian. Yet, the number of Christians is exploding in China.</p>
<p>1. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/7qrao" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/7qrao</a><br />
2. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dm4da" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/dm4da</a></p>
<p>I, too, never expected to be a Christian myself. I was a great fan of humanism and positivism. I had tried budism. And while all of this seemed to bring some peace and a sense of completeness, it was all too shallow.</p>
<p>Then I tried Christianity. And now there&#8217;s no turning back. My faith has grown day after day. I had experiences with God. Once you are really into Christianity there&#8217;s just too many evidence that God exists and that Jesus was really the Savior to not believe.</p>
<p>Think about it. Where is Zeus? What did he do for you? What can he do for you today?</p>
<p>God sent his son Jesus to live on earth and die for us. No other &#8216;god&#8217; out there would do the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://blog.sidneidasilva.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Bicking]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://omsg.wordpress.com/2005/10/10/re-self-version-20/#comment-95</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt; Another Random... &lt;/strong&gt; 
&quot;&quot;&quot;Why is it easier to those people to believe in books and religion invented by some random person than in Christ and the Bible? It&#039;s really sad to see this as a Christian.&quot;&quot;&quot;

Well, since you ask...

I&#039;ve come to realize -- not a profound realization, just one I hadn&#039;t thought of for some time -- that of all the things I *could* become, a Christian is not one of them.  I could gain faith or lose faith, I could believe in any number of things -- I haven&#039;t closed myself to such things.  But I couldn&#039;t become a Christian any more easily than I could start believing in Zeus.  

Christianity is a tradition.  I know *of* that tradition -- probably more than most of my secular friends, and maybe more than several of my Christian friends.  But I&#039;m not of that tradition; my family is a couple generations into secular humanism now.  I can take on new philosophies, but taking on a new tradition is a rather odd experience.  Why one instead of another?  Certainly when there is a spiritual vacuum many people reach into their peer group and their past, and they find Christianity.  But neither my past nor my peer group has Christianity, and my spiritual life has not been a vacuum.  And so where would my faith in Christ come from?  These things don&#039;t emerge from the ether.

So, there you go.  To some of us Christ is just a random person, and The Bible is just a random book, and there&#039;s nothing that can be changed about that.  I think, on some level, there&#039;s no going back -- if *I* had turned away, I could turn back, but separated by generations the shift becomes permanent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> Another Random&#8230; </strong><br />
&quot;&quot;&quot;Why is it easier to those people to believe in books and religion invented by some random person than in Christ and the Bible? It&#8217;s really sad to see this as a Christian.&quot;&quot;&quot;</p>
<p>Well, since you ask&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve come to realize &#8212; not a profound realization, just one I hadn&#8217;t thought of for some time &#8212; that of all the things I *could* become, a Christian is not one of them.  I could gain faith or lose faith, I could believe in any number of things &#8212; I haven&#8217;t closed myself to such things.  But I couldn&#8217;t become a Christian any more easily than I could start believing in Zeus.  </p>
<p>Christianity is a tradition.  I know *of* that tradition &#8212; probably more than most of my secular friends, and maybe more than several of my Christian friends.  But I&#8217;m not of that tradition; my family is a couple generations into secular humanism now.  I can take on new philosophies, but taking on a new tradition is a rather odd experience.  Why one instead of another?  Certainly when there is a spiritual vacuum many people reach into their peer group and their past, and they find Christianity.  But neither my past nor my peer group has Christianity, and my spiritual life has not been a vacuum.  And so where would my faith in Christ come from?  These things don&#8217;t emerge from the ether.</p>
<p>So, there you go.  To some of us Christ is just a random person, and The Bible is just a random book, and there&#8217;s nothing that can be changed about that.  I think, on some level, there&#8217;s no going back &#8212; if *I* had turned away, I could turn back, but separated by generations the shift becomes permanent.</p>
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